IMMIGRATION SWEEPS LEAD TO 20 ARRESTS IN SAN DIEGO

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Do you know your rights if ICE comes to your door?

By Miriam Raftery

July 14, 2019 (San Diego) – As part of immigration sweeps across the nation this week, 20 people with final deportation orders were arrested this past week in San Diego County, before the announced date of sweeps that President Donald Trump said would begin Sunday, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has announced.

According to ICE, 85 percent of those arrested had criminal convictions or criminal charges pending that included drug and weapons offenses, hit and run, driving under the influence, theft, domestic violence, fraud, or evading law enforcement.

The other 15 percent had only immigration violations, but all will be processed for deportation.

Across the nation, President Trump’s announcement of the impending sweeps struck fear into immigrant communities, raising fears of family separations and sending some immigrant households into hiding, NPR reports.

Fear, even among legal immigrants or those with family members who are undocumented, has prompted a "Know Your Rights" campaign by civil liberties and immigrant rights groups.

The American Civil Liberties Union filed a pre-emptive lawsuit Thursday that aims to protect asylum seekers, those who came to the U.S. seeking a safe haven from violence in their homelands.

It is unclear how many of those being swept up in the current crackdown may be asylum seekers who asked for asylum legally at the border, versus people who crossed the border illegally.

On Saturday, immigrant rights groups held protests across the nation organized by a group calling itself Lights for Liberty, including a protest held outside an ICE detention facility at Otay Mesa in San Diegoi County..

The ACLU has set up a “Know Your Rights” webpage to advise immigrants of their Constitutional rights.

If ICE or other law enforcement officers come to your home, the ACLU advises to keep the door closed and speak to them through the door.  Ask if they are immigration agents and why there are there.  Ask to see a badge or ID through a window or the peephole on your door.

Ask if they have a warrant signed by a judge, and if they do, ask them to slide it under the door or hold it up to a window for you to read it.  

If they don’t, you can tell them you don’t consent to entry.  If they force their way in, say,  “I do not consent to your entry or to your search. I am exercising my right to remain silent. I wish to speak with a lawyer as soon as possible.”

You have a right to remain silent, even if the officers have a warrant. 

A warrant for deportation or removal, Form I-205, does NOT allow officers to enter your home without your consent.

But an arrest warrant  or a search warrant signed by a  judge does give officers the right to enter. They are also allowed to enter if you’re on probation with a search condition.

Don’t lie or show any false documents, and don’t sign anything without talking with a lawyer first, the ACLU advises.

You can find more resources at ACLU.org, including what to do if stopped by  ICE officers on the streets, at work or other locations.

 

 

Comments

Contributing to Discussion or Platitudes, Ad Hominem Attacks

Full Title Not Shown: Posting Comments to Contribute to a Discussion or Posting Platitudes, 30-second Soundbites and/or Ad Hominem Attacks

Some commenters have attacked me for including my degree with my name. While I am proud of my accomplishments, my parents and grandparents even more so, given they only had high school educations, the ad hominem attacks on me, are evidence of some commenters incapability of defending their positions. I don’t need my degree to defend my positions as they are based on devoting time and energy and can be backed with extensive references..

This is not about degrees. One of my favorite books of all time was written by a longshoreman with little formal education; but with a voracious appetite for reading, Eric Hoffer’s “The True Believer” and the man who introduced my parents didn’t have a high school diploma; ran a small business and read tons of books on history, politics, biography. In fact, he introduced me to Wahrenbrocks Books where I fell in love with books. In his latter years, when SDSU began a program where seniors could enroll in one free course per term, he did so, priding himself on getting Cs; but he also took pride in my achievements.

I would recommend “The True Believer” to everyone and anyone.

For instance, one of the commenters using ad hominem attacks, Barry A. Treahy writes: “The article stated "violence in their homelands". Why is it the story of violence that is written by ACLU and other obstructionist agencies of non citizens; never provides specifics regarding documented homeland violence?” and “Would you have us believe the 30 or 50 million already, went to a judge for asylum hearings? Seems I heard that after checking in, almost every "processed Illegal" disappears and does not show up hearing day. I'll bet the Government has statistics on "how many actually went before a judge”.” He heard??? So miriam found statistics and one can find dozens of articles, including government reports on the topics. If someone challenges something I write, I do further research, if I find valid papers refuting what I wrote, I admit it; but if I find numerous additional credible papers, I include them in a new comment. Not Treahy. He attacks my degree writing with title Dr. vs American: “The doctor that posts here smacks of Anti American. I believe in America, the Republic, Constitution, Bill of Rights, rule of law, language, history and flag.” and “Your articles smack of too much personal involvement, from the Professors desk, and attitude that also smacks Anti American. Your data is historical in nature, and I try to be forward looking and see what is happening around me, and now. Most of the postings, including mine, are exactly that............what is happening now and what we should be doing about it.”

First, in order to “be doing” things now, we need to understand how we got to now, what problems exist, and then how to rectify them. Treahy is angry that I blamed refugees on our government lying to us in order to use the CIA and U.S. military to further the interests of American corporation. Well, I think most Americans are aware how money, especially corporate money, buys many of our politicians. Some examples:

In 2008 our banking system almost destroyed the American and World economy. Bankers, who prior, had made good money, began creating fake mortgages, NINJAs (no income, no jobs, no assets) in order to make additional commissions. They then bundled these and sold on the stock market, getting additional commissions. Years ago, local banks held mortgages, so if they went south, the bank lost; but by bundling them and selling them, they faced no loss. So we bailed them out at the cost eventually of trillions of dollars. No one went to jail, no one lost their jobs, no one individually was fined. In fact, they collected bonuses and the banks too big to fail were subsidized to purchase smaller banks, becoming even too “bigger” to fail. Could we have done otherwise? First, in 1999, Brooksley Borne testified before Congress that newer types of instruments on the stock market needed to become transparent and regulated; but numerous officials, including Alan Greenspan, Tim Geightner, etc. testified not needed and these people all became involved in the rescue. However, we did take over Fanny Mae, kept most of the employees, just got rid of the higher ups responsible for the problems, stabliized her, etc. We could have done the same with the banks. In the 1990s two of the largest banks in Sweden were about to collapse, so the government took them over, stabilized them, and turn them back within a couple of years to the private sector. To add insult to injury, the bail out money was supposed to be used to help embattled home owners. The banks outsourced this to private companies who got a commission for each mortgage they dealt with. They found it took less time to foreclose to earn the commission than renegotiate mortgages. In fact, they foreclosed on homes that had been paid for or were up to date on payments. Since the banks bundled mortgages and sold them, they didn’t bother to keep records.

While the greedy bankers and then the greedy outsourced mortgage renegotiating companies destroyed the lives of millions of Americans and took trillions of dollars of taxpayer monies that could have been used much better, we were locking up minority kids for possession of drugs, sometimes for 5 - 10 years, allowing ever increasing profits for the private for-profit prison industry. So bankers, who could have earned a good living while being honest, seriously hurt millions of people and our government even allowed them to collect bonuses.

Several years ago, Congress voted 100s of billions of dollars to build a new tank, one that the military over and over again said it did not want nor did not need; but great for one tank building corporation.

And when pharmaceutical and other companies withhold clear data that their product either doesn’t work and/or causes serious harm, does anyone go to prison? Almost never and the fines, though they seem huge, are less than the profits they made.

Most people understand the above, the revolving door between Congress and working for the companies, so when I write that our government has been lying to us, using our military to further the interests of private corporations, either getting access to raw materials or simply selling weapons, why is that so hard to believe? I gave several references and can give more.

As for the Bill of Rights, yep, maybe the first of its kind, something I love; but has it been implemented? Most Americans don’t know that it only applied to the Federal Government. Most of the states had state churches. Jefferson’s 1803 letter to the Danbury, Connecticut Baptists which stated their shall be a wall of separation of church and state was a response to this. At the time, if not a member of state sanctioned church, often one could not hold office, serve on juries, and were discriminated against, even persecuted. It wasn’t until after the Civil War with the 14th Amendment that the Bill of Rights “officially” applied to the states. However, our courts, including the Supreme Court ignored this, only beginning to apply the Bill of Rights to the states beginning in the 20th Century.

One example: With America’s entry into World War I, Wilson passed the Alien and Espionage laws. People were actually found guilty for being overheard saying: “this war is just to make money for corporations.” They received draconian sentences and were often brutalized by prison guards. Our Supreme Court backed the Wilsonian laws. In fact, if one reads the history of our Supreme Court, from the beginning it has for the most part ignored the Constitution and Bill of Rights, ruling in favor of government, corporations and the rich (see references below).

So, am I anti-American because I believe in the Bill of Rights; but point out that we haven’t lived up to it? Am I anti-American because I point out that our government often lies to us, using our taxes, risking our young loyal military, to further corporate interests, to kill, maim, cripple, and impoverish people in Third World nations. Neither Afghanistan nor Iraq were threats to us. Hussein didn’t have weapons of mass destruction, nor was he allied with Al Qaeda. He was a secularists and they had a Fatwa against him. So, we have spent literally trillions of dollars on useless, brutal wars, dollars that could have been used to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, to improve access to quality health care, etc.

Loving someone or something, doesn’t mean turning a blind eye, allowing bad things to continue. We applauded the Truth and Reconciliation hearings in South Africa and Argentina. Hypocritical not to do the same.

I could go on and on; but people like Treahy won’t listen. Since they represent a large segment of voters, easily swayed by platitudes and 30-second soundbites, not willing to take the time to actually study a subject, e.g., U.S. foreign policy, they actually hurt themselves as well. The trillions spent destroying Third World countries is monies that could have benefited us and them, including not having to deal with the refugees such policies created.

Ignorance may be short-term bliss; but in the long run it can be devastating. So, instead of attacking me, it would be nice if Treahy and others would actually read what I write, do some research, and either change their minds or defend their positions.

I realize they won’t. The world is complicated and people want black and white solutions. Once decided upon, they get reinforced by believing they are in the right, reinforced by other like-minded and avoid the unpleasantness of devoting time and energy to learning, and admitting they had been, sometimes, wrong, the painful cognitive dissonance resulting from this.

One other commenter, DeplorableGirl, admits that she isn’t interested in a dialogue to further knowledge, just posting to irritate people. However, her comments come from one website that supports white supremacy and eugenic and from rabid antivaccinationists. It would be hard to believe that she just found these to use to irritate. More than likely these are websites and people whose message she, at least to some extent, supports. I asked her if she was a global warming denier and what she thought of evolution; but no response. So, we get Treahy with empty platitudes, 30-second soundbites, and statements lacking any backing, with his ad hominem attacks and DeplorableGirl whose only goal is to irritate; but in doing so, reveals her biases. What a waste. As the old saying goes: “A mind is a terrible thing to waste.”

I’ve already given a number of references in other comments which I’m sure few to none checked out; but three more that document our Supreme Court’s history:

Erwin Chemerinsky (2015 Sep 29). The Case Against the Supreme Court.

Peter Irons (1999). A People’s History of the Supreme Court.

Geoffrey R. Stone (2004). Perilous Times: Free Speech in Wartime: From the Sedition Act of 1798 to the War on Terror.

Dr. No

I can see there is no common ground with a PHD who treats public comments like classroom students, showering them with personal knowledge, ego, books, quotes, reads, etc. exercising the "pen is mightier than the sword" crap. Dr. No, you failed with me to find that common ground of which I always try to seek. There is no connection and no debate. You have the floor,I don't find agreement with you and please, don't trip over yourself.

Dr. No

If common ground means unquestioning ignorance, yep, we have NO common ground. As I wrote in another comment, I've had friends, most passed now, who represented libertarian to communist, Jewish, Christian, intelligently, could listen and question, could agree sometimes, disagree other times, and compromise sometimes; but we learned from each other and never stopped being friends. 

Consumed with yourself

You are so deep in your qualifications, experience, knowledge, common sense, history, ideology etc. that you possibly don't get my point. I take nothing from you. I want nothing from you. I am not and do not want to be your friend. I have been educated, have a teaching credential among other things. If you want to conduct classes, please don't do it here. Post your narratives and references, but please walk away from the chalk board. Life is simple and so should be the postings.

Amen!

Well said, sir. There are those here who insist I'm an a-hole, but as usual, they've got it all wrong. I’m not an a-hole, I’m a hemorrhoid. My job here is to irritate a-holes. :) KAGA

Amen!

So, your job isn't to exchange well-thought out ideas in order for both sides to grow, learn, improve; but just to irritate. Well, you've failed miserably because all your comments have done is dig ever deeper holes for you.

However, you are good for a bit of comic relief. Sometimes dealing with people incapable of actually formulating intelligent ideas is nice for a change. I devote most of my time to trying to learn as many sides of an issue as possible. Despite not being an economist, for instance, I've read Adam Smith and David Ricardo, founders of market economics, F.A. Hayek, founder of Liberatianism, Milton Friedman, Karl Marx and many more, as many sides as possible and interestingly, I've found points in all of them that I agreed with as the world is a complex place; but points I disagreed with as well. So, once in a while, someone like you, is good for a bit of respite. I'm still sorry Miriam deleted your calling me a narcissist, a rather amusing idiosyncratic use of the word. How presenting ideas backed with references is narcissistic seems weird.

Dr. vs American

Many people have carried a handle, I did but dropped it when I retired. As you can see, I dropped my e-mail handle and substituted my full real name here. I have a Doctor in the family and she never refers herself as Dr. Charmaine but just Charmaine. I like that because she is not validating herself in the presence of others to make a case. The doctor that posts here smacks of Anti American. I believe in America, the Republic, Constitution, Bill of Rights, rule of law, language, history and flag. All of that has been compromised by immigrants this current decade and mostly by Mexicans in my country, waving the Mexican flag in our face and declaring we are taking California back. I can see by other postings that some of my thinking matches, whereby not so for Dr. No. I find he tries to validate his position by many references and his title. I apologize if my comments are to person specific however as the judge said "overruled"! I want things done and/or fixed now and do not want to continue going backwards like the outdated references and using them to validate now and tomorrow. No to "illegals", no to immigration as we have too many people now and no to reparations. Tomorrow is coming, lets make the best of it.

Dr. vs American

How absurd. So everyone with a degree is NOT an American??? As for Mexicans, etc., I suggest you read a book by Ronald Takaki, "A DIfferent Mirror: A History of Multicultural America." He makes a compelling argument that this nation was built by many cultures. You might learn something. As for validating my position with many references, yep, I do my homework. Miriam also posted comments referrring to actual studies. I could give a list of studies, including by the Federal Reserve, that have found immigrants, even illegal ones, contribute more to this nation than they get. As for believing in America, the Republic, Constitution etc. says absolutely nothing. Meaningless platitudes and 30-second soundbites.What do you think of the 3/5ths clause that gave slave-owning states added representation? (check out an excellent history of how the Constitution came to be: Alfred Blumrosen. Slave Nation: How Slavery United the Colonies and Sparked the American Revolution. He makes a compelling argument that it wasn't taxation; but slavery as slave-owning states were afraid Great Britain was going to outlaw it, which they did. And it only took 650,000 dead to amend the 3/5th clause, the Civil War).

As I wrote below, I'm tired of people who make empty statements, who are incapable of actually defending their positions. And I will continue to use my degrees. My parents and grandparents were proud of my accomplishment, none of them went beyond high school. And, again, absolutely absurd to put Dr. contra American. Absurd! The fact that you find others equally incapable of defending their positions, so what?

I am an immigrant...

...and I don't feel threatened by any of this! I am a legal immigrant, I earned my citizenship! But I do feel threatened when my right to self-defense with a firearm, "the equalizer", is infringed on.

U.S. to blame for horrors in refugee nations

In 1953 Guatemala had an elected government. At the time, the United Fruit Company had the only railroad and charged triple the rates as railroads in the US. The United Fruit Company also "owned" land that went unused in which they gave low-end value to reduce their taxes. The new Guatemalan government, in a nation with high infant mortality and mass poverty, wanted to better the lives of its citizens, so it purchased the unused United Fruit acreage at the prices United Fruit declared and began to build a separate rail line. It then gave the acreage to Guatemalans. Keep in mind that the land had been obtained by United Fruit from the corrupt dictatorship that preceded the new democracy. So, Allen Dulles, brother of US Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, told the American people it was a communitst take-over and the CIA overthrew the democratically elected government. The result was the deaths over the years of more than 150,000 Guatemalans, killed by the dictatorship, fake democracy, that we backed and criminal gangs. This is just one example of the US Government directly destroying hopes in Third World nations in order to further the interests of American corporations, telling Americans we are using CIA and our military to further democracy, to combat communism. Once lied to, Americans, like many people, don't want to be forced to admit they had been fooled, plus don't want to take responsibility for the people hurt, so . . .

And, while the taxpayer funded all these interventions, corporations made fortunes, while the taxpayers got basically nothing. The monies spent on the "criminal war crimes by us" could have been used in this country for infrastructure, health care, education, and a less costly, that is far less than what we spent, foreign aid that actually would have helped the people in Third World nations.

For anyone actually interested, the following document the horrors our government has caused, while lying to the American people. I challenge anyone with a conscience to read the following and then say, if they have any sense of justice, that we owe these people nothing;

Williams Blum (2003). Killing Hope: US Military & CIA Interventions since World War II. Available at: https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/13/130AEF1531746AAD6AC03... [also for purchase on Amazon.com

Major General Smedley Butler   War Is A Racket. Available at: https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf  [Butler is the most decorated marine in American history]

Mason Gaffney (March 2018). Corporate Power and Expansive U.S. Military Policy. American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 77, No. 2. Pages 331 - 417. Available at: https://www.globalresearch.ca/corporate-power-and-expansive-u-s-military...

Stephen C. Schlesinger (1983). Bitter Fruit: The Untold Story of the American Coup in Guatemala. Inexpensive copies available on Amazon.com  Also available San Diego Public Library

U.S. to blame for horrors in refugee nations

I really find it tiresome when people thow out opinions without any reference to credible sources. I gave a number of references. Try actually reading in depth about things, think about them, then form an opinion. As an example, look at Africa. European nations created artificial boundaries, combining different tribes while splitting tribes. In actuality, several African nations had quite advance civilizations, some even had developed technologies and welfare systems; however, Europeans had the weapons of war and the ruthlessness to use them. PBS has an excellent series Africa's Great Civilizations. Watch it. You might learn something.

And US history doesn't just involve what we did to other countries; but a long history of brutality towards native Americans, e.g., An Indigenous History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz.

You can't change History

Your articles smack of too much personal involvement, from the Professors desk, and attitude that also smacks Anti American. Your data is historical in nature, and I try to be forward looking and see what is happening around me, and now. Most of the postings, including mine, are exactly that............what is happening now and what we should be doing about it. Perhaps you should be looking and taking a cross section of what is here and see if the common thread is about America, Constitution, Rule of Law, Language, Flag, History, culture, and specifically Sovereignty etc. Not behind us, but in front.

You can't change History

My attitude smack Anti American. Golly gee. Ever heard of the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. The Anti-Federalist papers were dead set against the Constitution. There leader was Thomas Jefferson. I guess, based on your way of looking at things, Jefferson must have been Anti American. During the Vietnam War I was involved in protests. In the university library were books on Vietnamese history, clearly hating the Chinese. In addition, Ho Chi Minh was an admirer of Thomas Jefferson, beginning his 1946 independence speech with "We hold these truths to be self-evident . . ." And at the same time our politicians were talking about the Domino Theory, we were extolling Tito's independent communist Yugoslavia. Most Americans today who have taken the time to actually study the Vietnam War, including the Pentagon Papers, agree it was not just a mistake; but a war crime, we targeted schools, hospitals, etc. So, did we who protested against the Vietnam War hate America? I protested against our attack on Iraq, based on Bush claiming Sadam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and was in league with Al Qaeda. Both not even remotely true. I met the 2nd in command of the UN Weapons Inspectors, so our attack on Iraq was both types of war crimes, attack was war of aggression, not defense and we blew up Iraq cities power plants and water treatment plants, civilian targets, 2nd type of war crime. So, was my protesting a display of hating America or trying to stop us from an unnecessary, brutal war? 

As for Constitution, Rule of Law, History, culture, meaningless words. Rule of Law? We helped write international laws on war crimes, signed and ratifed them. So, our attack on Vietnam and Iraq certainly weren't based on rule of law. And on and on it goes. 

I guess when you see someone you care about making a mistake, you keep it to yourself because caring is never criticizing.

As for my article smack of too much personal involvement, yikes! I build my articles based on devoting time and energy into learning about subjects, back with references, and that's personal; but your shallow comments using platitudes and 30-second soundbites, displaying someone who thinks that NEVER questioning, always defending ones nation is a display of what exactly???

You remind me of antivaccinationists I've exchanged comments with. Several don't understand any of the basics of vaccinology; but, all the same, know they are right. I guess it is nice to think one is right, knows far more than someone who devotes time and energy into learning things. Unfortunately, all it means is you are close-minded.

Tripping over ACLU and the media

The article stated "violence in their homelands". Why is it the story of violence that is written by ACLU and other obstructionist agencies of non citizens; never provides specifics regarding documented homeland violence? Hundreds of thousands coming into my country claiming asylum against violence------------- please match up a violence claim for each and start publishing them for us to see and understand. I can just imagine, a judge listening to hundreds, perhaps thousands of empty unverifiable claims. When an enforcement officer in "my Country" stops me, I have to prove who I am and cooperate with him or go to jail. Seems that deporting "illegals' should be just as easy, prove who you are and show evidence for asylum or about face!. Shouldn't go no further, even to court!

Tripping over ACLU and the media

Try reading my comment above, U.S. Responsible for Horrors in Third World. It includes a list of references. For once in your life, rather than using platitudes and 30 second soundbites, try actually devoting some time to reading on a subject, then think about it, then form an opinion, not just an opinion based on your need to believe that we are great.

Council on Foreign Relations story on violent triangle asylees

are fleeing from in Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras has an in-depth background on the problems there:

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/central-americas-violent-northern-triangle

Resources make it impossible to cover the thousands of asylum hearings going on across the nation, but judges have strict criteria they must follow.  They can't just admit people based on their word. Their must be credible evidence to grant asylum. If threats have been documented against someone, or a loved one was murdered for not giving in to blackmail and there are news reports, those are two examples. If someone has been beaten by gangs and hospitalized, there could be medical records, or if they filed police reports in their home countries reporting threats or vioelnce, for example.

 

 

Are you talking about the 30 or 40 million already here?

Would you have us believe the 30 or 50 million already, went to a judge for asylum hearings? Seems I heard that after checking in, almost every "processed Illegal" disappears and does not show up hearing day. I'll bet the Government has statistics on "how many actually went before a judge".

Which year?

Looking through your data, from 2013 to 2018, some information about shows vs no shows: I don't believe the data and it was lacking in current numbers. We have been experiencing the lack of Government control and oversight. The actual numbers of "illegals in America" are whose responsibility? When I was working, I opened a car trunk for the Police and out came two "illegals". That was years ago and the Police told me "it is policy to let them go". Nothing changed, "illegals' being released today and/or dumped in the U.S. Pelosci and the Democrats crap on our system to enable new arrivals to register Democrat! The DOJ and FBI was a mess as well as the unresolved criminal activities of Clintons and O'bamas. I don't believe data coming out of their service which ended when President Trump took office. As to the comment "they don't like this president" that certainly is spot on for Pelosci, Schummer, the white dress female Democrats in Congress and self made wealthy Senators that accumulated it on our dime. Me? I love my Country, flag, Constitution, Bill of Rights, language, culture, history, rule of law! Rule of law! HAS TO STOP AT OUR BORDER and that creepy Congress needs to revisit the definition of patriotism.

Wrong, you've got your number backwards.

"Over the last 20 years, 37 percent of all aliens free pending trial failed to appear for their hearings. From the 2,498,375 foreign nationals outside detention during their court proceedings, 1,219,959 were ordered removed, 75 percent of them (918,098) for failing to appear. Only 25 percent of this group — some 301,861 people — actually litigated their claims." Courting Disaster Absent attendance and absent enforcement in America’s immigration courts

Wrong, you've got your number backwards

The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is an anti-immigration think tank. It favors far lower immigration numbers, and produces research to further those views. The CIS was founded by John Tanton, a eugenicist and white nationalist.

Do you know what a eugenicist is? Try watching PBS "The Eugenics Crusade" Having read quite a bit about it, you might find it interesting that Nazi Germany modeled its laws, including sterilizing "undesirables" on American laws, even welcomed several leading American eugenicists to help formulate the laws. 

So, way to go. You found a website known for biased studies created to further what most decent Americans would find abhorent. So, using the name DeplorableGirl suits you!!!

Well, well....

The Doctor shows up for school! As I've stated previously folks, find yourselves someone in this life who looks at you the way this man looks at himself in the mirror. Seems conflict follows you everywhere you go, Joel. Joel Harrison’s Selective Paranoia: Or here's another good example......How the CDC has Promoted Ignorance about Vaccine Safety I'll bet you were bullied as a child in school....I'll bet you live alone....I'll bet you have very few friends....I'll bet even your cat doesn't show up to your funeral! Now, go feed your ego, I'm busy.

Name calling violates our site rules.

I've left your post but deleted the negative name. Deplorable Girl, you've had a few warnings. Please show courtesy to others even if you disagree and avoid the name calling and egging on others.

Others here need to do the same.

Guilty as charged...

Sorry, I got a little carried away. Like a toy from childhood, he's so much fun to wind up. And for the record, I always let him have the last word.

Guilty as charged

You write: "And for the record, I always let him have the last word." Really? That's why every time I responded to something you wrote, basically demolished it, you came up with something else. As I wrote, well-done studies have found that up to 80% of Americans lack the basics of critical thinking and logic. In this case, logic refers to your illogic.

Guilty as charged

I'm sorry your name calling was deleted. You didn't wind me up, just sadly reminded me that numerous well-done studies have found up to 80% of Americans lack basic knowledge of science, science methodology, critical thinking and logic. Though it seems you posted comments not to open a discussion; but just to annoy people, not cool.

As I pointed out, not once did you actually address the issues I discussed, just kept finding more criticisms of me, and, when I pointed out their flaws, again you failed to address this. So, you sadly remind me of a major problem in this country, not right, center, left; but people whose positions they are actually incapable of really defending or discussing. On the other hand, I found your name-calling quite amusing, brought back childhood memories, as I mentioned, when I called other kids "cootie bugs.”

As for your idiosyncratic use of word “narcissist,” a little anecdote. Last Sunday I donated blood. I’m hoping to reach 100 or more donations while I can. Each donation can save up to 3 lives so with luck my life will have saved 300 lives. While not a big fan of being stuck with needles, each time I feel quite good about myself, according to you, narcissistic pleasure. Given U.S. has a shortage of blood donors, maybe we need more narcissist like me?

Though I’ve outlived most of my friends, they have ranged from Libertarian, Conservative, Moderate, Liberal to even Communists. And Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Moslem, Buddhist, Atheist, and various versions within. We had many an interesting discussion. They were ALL quite capable of actually explaining their position and willing to listen to mine. Since life is quite complex and I don’t believe anyone has the corner on knowledge, I learned from them, actually agreeing with some points; but not others. In the end, we sometimes reached a compromise; but often agreed to disagree. And not like what has developed in the U.S. nowadays where many choose to put labels on anyone who disagrees with them as if that is all that defines a person. And many using platitudes and 30 second soundbites, incapable of more.

As opposed to you, as an example, I carefully read what antivaccinationists write, and if they give references, get them as well. Then, based on many years of training, I look at the actual methodologies, etc. If any actually, not one study, since even a well-done study is subject to random chance, should find that the risks were higher than currently found, for any vaccine or ingredient or for a subgroup, I would have absolutely NO problem supporting the finding. Not only have I NEVER had a financial interest; but have recommended vaccinations to my late grandparents, parents, family friends, etc. for them and their children. And all the people I personally know, CDC, FDA, medical schools, etc. have done the same. And I have had almost every vaccine imaginable, smallpox three times, polio, yellow fever, typhoid/paratyphoid, DTP, Tdap, flu, meningococcus, pneumococcus, and more. And I am on listservs for WHO, Canadian, Swedish, UK, CDC, etc. monitoring both safety reports and current status of vaccine-preventable diseases in the world (but a plane flight away).

So, if your sole purpose in posting comments is to yank people’s chains, pathetic, you miss out on opportunities to learn, grow, and develop.

Reply to DeplorableGirl's Well, well

Reply

I pointed out in a previous comment that the website DeplorableGirl cited was a white supremacist, eugenics promoting organization. If someone had claimed that I did something similar, I would check it out, if true, since I abhor racism and eugenics, since for me, all human life has value and dignity and also animal life, one of the reasons I am a vegetarian, 99% vegan, health being another, I would actually apologize, thank them, do further research and find credible websites. Or, if I were a racist/eugenicists, I would simply claim that what I cited is valid, that I support the organization. Instead DeplorableGirl attacks me, linking to two articles by rabid antivaccinationist that have been refuted over and over and writes such childish things as "I'll bet you were bullied as a child in school....I'll bet you live alone....I'll bet you have very few friends....I'll bet even your cat doesn't show up to your funeral! Now, go feed your ego, I,m busy" My cat doesn't show up to my funeral? When I was in elementary school we used to tease other kids, calling them cootie bugs. Maybe next time, instead of calling me "the narcissistic Dr. Crackpot", DeplorableGirl will call me a cootie bug. It would certainly reflect her level of maturity, besides her not even attempting to defend what she wrote.

Jake Crosby is a rabid defender of Andrew Wakefield, a British medical doctor who lost his license. Among the things Wakefield did was publish a fraudulent study of 12 kids who he claimed were diagnosed with autism. Later review of their medical records found not to be the case. Wakefield had been working for several years as a consultant to a law firm suing MMR vaccine maker because the parents believed it responsible for their child’s condition, being paid ca $750,000 while collecting his regular salary at the Royal Free Hospital. He applied for and was granted money from the British Legal Aid Society to do research “to prove the MMR caused autism.” In the article of the 12 kids he wrote they were regular referrals to the Royal Free Hospital; but they weren’t. In actuality they were kids of families involved in the lawsuit or from an anti vaccination organization JABS that supported the lawsuit, except one child, number 11. So when Wakefield discusses in the article that he asked the parents what they think caused their kids condition, a question totally irrelevant to the purpose of the article, he knew the answer in advance. Imagine someone writing an article 60 years ago in the US about race relations, stating they used a random sample survey and found that almost 100% were against mingling of the races, then finding out they only surveyed members of the KKK. The biopsies Wakefield reported in later articles were faked, his research assistant had failed to find measles, so Wakefield redid them. He ordered invasive tests, lumbar punctures and colonoscopies not called for in an evaluation of their disorders, so only for research purposes, though he had not obtained permission at that time to carry on the research, and he faked the time interval between receiving the MMR and first symptoms of autism. One thing he wasn’t guilty of was using the Legal Aid Society’s grant for the particular study of the 12. And finally, at a press conference upon publication of the later retracted study, Wakefield said he would feel safer giving children monovalent measles shots. Turns out his name was on two patents for a monovalent measles vaccine to which he stood to make a fortune if the patent was approved and a return to monovalent vaccines. All this Crosby ignores. He attacks the investigative journalist Brian Deer for working for Big Pharma, with no substantial evidence and which Deer denies, his investigation was paid for by Channel 4 and the Times; but even if it were true, doesn’t change what he uncovered. Crosby claims Deer’s obtaining of the kids medical records was illegal; but I doubt both London Times and the British Medical Journal which published Deer’s articles would have risked this and the British Medical Council hearing on Andrew Wakefield certainly had subpoena power for the medical records. For those interested, you can find Deer’s series on Wakefield “How the Case Against the MMR was Fixed” at: https://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347

And even if the medical records were obtained illegally, Crosby gives no evidence that what they contained was false. And even if Deer were paid by Big Pharma, thought not true, it would still require Crosby to actually prove what Deer wrote was false, which he can’t.

And as I discussed in a previous comment, he attacked Richard Demirjian, the father of Child 11, who wrote refuting Wakefield’s claim that Child 11’s first symptoms of autism occurred one week after receiving the MMR. You can find Crosby’s attack, and dishonest displaying of one column from Table 2 at:

https://www.autisminvestigated.com/richard-demirjian-autism-wolves/

He gives Demirjian’s address and phone number exhorting people to phone him. This is actually a crime in in many states, telephone harassment. And in a later post, gives Demirjian’s autistic son’s Facebook page, again encouraging harassment.

You can find the retracted Wakefield article at: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2897%291...

Check out Table 2 and compare with what Crosby posted. You can find Demirjian’s entire letter, which Crosby dishonestly excerpted only parts at: http://briandeer.com/solved/dan-olmsted-child-11.pdf

So, Crosby crossed the line inciting telephone harassment, dishonestly posts a misleading portion of a table, etc. And despite overwhelming evidence against Wakefield, continues to defend him.

Then Crosby attacks me for simply requesting the title of his MPH thesis which he claims is about Vaccine Safety. As I wrote in previous comment, bizarre that there is NO record of his thesis. Just a guess; but maybe it didn’t pass and he was allowed to switch to the non-thesis MPH program??? And he also attacked one of my articles, a well-documented paper, by calling it a rant. If a student of mine, in a class assignment to critique a paper, submitted only calling it a “rant” he would get an F.

For those interested in checking out one of my “rants” in a medical journal about Wakefield:

Harrison JA (2013). Wrong About Vaccine Safety: A Review of Andre Wakefield’s “Callous Disregard”. The Open Vaccine Journal. 6: 9-25. At: https://benthamopen.com/contents/pdf/TOVACJ/TOVACJ-6-9.pdf

So, DeplorableGirl attacks me in an extremely childish manner and cites a paper by Jake Crosby, a rabid antivaccinationists. Does she have any credibility at all?

Its not my credibility that is in quesiton

in these articles Joel, it's yours. I believe Dr. Crosby is spot-on about you and your motives. How much financial gain have you acquired from Big Pharma by spending a lifetime pushing drugs? all the while ignoring and disputing well-documented clinical research concluding some of these concoctions may have side effects making them worse than the illness their intended to prevent? This says nothing about the fact that you're incapable of having dialog either in this forum, or with your peers without being combative and antagonistic. Call me what you want, but you are not a good person and you've proven that time and time again within the pages of this forum.

DeplorableGirl Its not my credibility that is in quesiton

Crosby isn't Dr. Crosby. He has an MPH which in many places can be earned in one year, including summer school. He has no research experience and NEVER worked as an epidemiologist. He was briefly in a doctoral program at University of Texas School of Public Health branch in Austin, Texas; but no longer. He claims their fault; but, unfortunately, by law they can't explain why he was terminated; but it may interest you to know that his family, especially his uncle are estimated to be worth almost $1 billion dollars and they have donated money to George Washington University. So, you believe Crosby is right simply because he confirms what you choose to believe.

So far you've insulted me as a person and accused me of being bought by BigPharma; but not once have tried to justify your position. Quite typical of antivaccinationists and others who form opinions based on beliefs, not devoting time and energy to study.

DeplorableGirl Its not my credibility that is in question

First, I have NEVER worked for the FDA, CDC, or any pharmaceutical company, nor have I even purchased pharmaceutical stocks. I have NEVER made one cent from my support of vaccines. But even if I had, doesn't change the fact that I gave overwhelming evidence that Crosby lies, e.g., using portion of table from Wakefield's retracted article, encourages harrassment of one man and even his kid with Autism, refuses to even give the name of his alleged MPH thesis, and continuously supports Andrew Wakefield, a completely discredited doctor. I also pointed out that when I gave info that the data you cited came from a racist, eugenicist website, rather than responding to it, you attacked me with the most immature, juvenile, STUPID things.

For well over 40 years I have read 1,000s of articles and 100s of books on the history and current status of the vaccine-preventable diseases, attended numerous seminars, had advanced training and experience in epidemiology, and even retired, continuously keep up with the literature, plus I have actually know people who suffered disabilities from polio and other diseases. While Crosby has NEVER had a single job as an epidemiologist and his refusal to even give title to this MPH thesis, no field/research experience. And, despite your not even bothering to read the paper I wrote on Wakefield, I have written dozens of papers where I went through antivaccinationists claims, refuting them with 100s of peer-reviewed articles.

The overwhelming research has found over and over again that the risks from the vaccine-preventable diseases is far greater than the rare serious adverse reactions to vaccines. I would be willing to bet that you haven't even tried to immerse yourself in these studies, nor attempted to learn even the basics of microbiology, immunology, infectious diseases history and current status, epidemiology or biostatistics.

As for "call me what you want," in psychology this is called "PROJECTION" claiming others guilty of your own negative behavior. You are the one who, rather than trying to defend the data you cited, responded with a really STUPID immature illogical juvenile attack on me.

However, now it is obvious that you are an ill-informed antivaccinationist as well as someone who supports white supremacy and eugenics. Nice to know. By the way do you also think global warming is a hoax? And what is your opinion on evolution? And how do you know I am incapable of having dialogue with my peers? Though retired, I still have colleagues who actually send me manuscripts to look at and phone to discuss their research. And my name is in the acknowledgments for proof-reading and editorial suggestions on undergraduate microbiology books, biostatistic books, and one health education book.

So, you are a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, a series of experiments that found the less people know about a subject, the more certain their opinion is correct. Though you made it clear that you refuse to actually read what I wrote and discuss it, not look at any of the references I’ve given, still I give a few more papers I’ve written for others with open minds:

https://www.bmj.com/content/365/bmj.l4291/rr-27

https://www.bmj.com/content/365/bmj.l2268/rr-7

https://archive.org/details/2.joela.harrison2014nov4.expertcommentaryser...
[Just click on PDF and you can download some or all 11 files].

https://n1s1t23sxna2acyes3x4cz0h-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uplo...“Dissolving-Illusions”-long-version.pdf

https://n1s1t23sxna2acyes3x4cz0h-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uplo...

A glowing review

by yet another of your peers, take note of the reference to "bullying":
  • "I am immensely grateful to Dr Harrison for continuing to demonstrate his philosophy of treating fellow human beings. He believes in compulsion, in bullying. I believe in discussing, converting. Here in the UK, we abolished compulsory vaccination against smallpox in 1948. Smallpox disappeared from the world in 1978, if my memory serves. Of course Dr Harrison and others of his ilk cannot be and should not be forced to think like me, to talk like me. My phraseology has been, I trust, courteous. With belief in my fallibility, and in humility, I remain, Dr Harrison, Sincerely yours JK Anand"

DeporableGirl A glowing review

Once again you fail to respond to anything I write, just come up with quotes from someone else. Our you totally incapable of actually formulating anything beyond quoting others and attacking people? Well, though I know you wont, I responded to JK Anand with numerous comments where I clearly proved that claims he made in his BMJ Rapid Responses were WRONG. But I specifically responded to his comment on bullying. I doubt you will read it; but it is a BMJ Rapid Response: Response 3 to Dr Anand: Callous Disregard For the Vulnerable Innocents at:

https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l1481/rr-30

You could also check out my previous RRs to him.

So, once again you attack me for "bullying" when it is you who refuse to actually address what I wrote, backed with references, and continue to attack me. By the way, JK Anand has posted numerous BMJ Rapid Responses on other subjects, some that make me wonder if he actually went to medical school. I don't consider him a peer as he has NO training in research, nor epidemiology nor biostatistics, etc. And like you he doesn't respond to what I write, just goes on and on. 

Well, well response to DEPLORABLEGIRL

Wow, you follow Jake Crosby and James Lyons-Wyler. Two antivaccinationists whose claims have been refuted over and over again. I'm sure you didn't understand why Crosby attacked me. He claims to have written an MPH thesis; but won't even give its title and for some strange reason George Washington U library doesn’t have it referenced in their catalogue. Every university I’ve attended and those of friends have a bound copy of every thesis in their respective libraries and listed in their catalogue, including honors Bachelor theses, Master and Doctoral theses. And Crosby found the Facebook page to a autistic young man and encouraged people to harass him because his father, who believed his son was Child 11, had publicly stated that the interval was several months, not a week as listed in Wakefield’s discredited paper, which the British Medical Council hearings confirmed from the actual kids medical records.  Crosby doesn’t know where to draw the line. Crosby used one column from a table in Andrew Wakefield's discredited paper, the wrong column, "Age at onset of first symptom" to claim Wakefield proved the time interval to noticing autistic behaviors, ignoring the column that had title "Interval from exposure to first behavioural symptom" and then someone named Carol attacked me because it said exposure not MMR; but the column before "Exposure identified by parents or doctor" listed MMR after 11 out of 12. 

As for James Lyons-Weiler, he is just dead wrong about the incredible amount of vaccine safety studies and the CDC lists their own conducted Safety Studies at:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/research/publications/index.html

However, theirs is only a small number compared to the immense number of vaccine safety studies that have been carried out. For example, go to the National Library of Medicine's online database PubMed at:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

Type in search box: Vaccine Safety and I got 19,290 papers. You can limit the search to various vaccines. I could give you dozens of references with links; but I highly doubt you would check any out. And Lyons-Weiler is not a medical doctor, not an immunologist (vaccines are applied immunology, and not an epidemiologist. I could give lengthy reviews of his claims, tearing them apart using well-referenced studies, etc. And I doubt you have the skills, training, education, to actually read Lyons-Weiler’s paper you link to and understand just how defective it is.

I don't own a cat; but a great rescue dog who was scheduled to be euthanized at a shelter, so I saved him and love him; but I love all animals and my family has had cats in the past. I guess attacking me is your primitive immature way of avoiding admitting your information was from a despicable organization that favors eugenics. But if you follow Crosby and Lyons-Wyler then maybe you support eugenics as well.

So, yes, I have an ego; but it is based on a life-time of learning. Even as a senior citizen I read up to four hours a day various non-fiction subjects. In any case, for others who may be following this exchange, besides the PBS program on eugenics I recommend the following books:
Stephen Jay Gould (1996). The Mismeasure of Man.
Edwin Black (2003). War Against the Week: Eugenics and America's Campaign to Create a Master Race
William H. Tucker (1994). The Science and Politics of Racial Research

And no I wasn't bullied in school, rather I was invited to others homes to help them with their homework. I was the nerd. Actually, I currently don't have many friends because I’ve outlived most of them. I've never smoked, nor used drugs, been a vegetarian most of my life, and exercised regularly, swimming, jogging, biking, they didn't. No, not a good athlete, just persistent. At one time I actually had quite a few friends around the world. I’ve lived in five other nations and traveled a lot. I am, however, still in touch with a dozen or so by e-mail, including in Sweden, Belgium, the UK, Canada, and the most foreign of nations, Texas. And have a half dozen in my hometown.

So, besides quoting from a highly biased website and attacking me using a couple of posts by two who lack any credibility, are you capable of entering into any type of actual dialogue? Can you actually formulate ideas based on a thorough studying of a subject?

I doubt it which explains the nom de guerre you have chosen.

All propaganda, we're being used!

"Migrants from all three countries cite violence, forced gang recruitment, and extortion, as well as poverty and lack of opportunity, as their reasons for leaving". Bull, jobs, Government handouts, better environment and services etc. are the draw. It is not our responsibility as Americans in our Sovereign nation, to accept, less be overrun by those that want more. Further it seems in the read that the "illegals" themselves are the source of the reasons picked up by the media to support the "legitimacy" of support for them. Americans first! Rule of law always! Help they neighbor, yes, within the confines of our Republic!